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Master
John (left) with Grandmaster DeMaria |
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"When the student is
ready, the Master will appear."
It All Started in a Pizza Parlor
An Interview with Master
John Scattaretico
By Marilyn Jean Young
Dragon and Crane,
a unique facility opened in 2006 and nestled
in a wooded grove, is a dream come true for
Master John. Long awaited, this
“American Chinese Cultural Center” brings
a taste of the Orient Temple in China.
Vibrant colors, swirling shapes and harmonic
forms surround and gracefully lead us from the
gardens outside to the courtyard within, where
destiny begins. One perfect summer
afternoon, with green tea nearby, we sat under
the triple white birch, and chatted.
THE KWOON
MJ: How
does it feel to have your dream come true?
SJ: I'm very
grateful - it's very rare that some-one can actually
have a true dream...and two things happened to
me over the last year that were very unique in
terms of something that I wanted to accomplish
my whole life. One was to stand on the ground
of the Shao-lin Temple alongside the monks in
China which was really just a dream come true.
And of course the other was just a long term
plan of hopefully one day having our own place
to train. So I've been really lucky that those
two things came to pass before I came to pass
(laughs)...so that's remarkable!
MJ: How
do you feel inside about that?
SJ: Oh - I'm
glowing about that! But that thought's been out
there for a long time – and you wonder
how things come about and this came about pretty
much as a good thing arriving out of a difficult
set of circumstances as both my wife and I ended
up losing our jobs. One door opens as another
door closes and that's pure yin and yang and
you never really know what's going to transpire.
So I've been graced with being able to accomplish
not just one dream but two.
MJ: How
long have you wanted to have your own school?
SJ: Oh probably
ever since I started teaching on my own. The
trials and tribulations of having to find a spot
- a suitable space with affordable rent - and
as soon as you say martial arts people slam the
door in your face and it's really difficult.
I knew it was going to be a challenge to ideally
find our own location - but that would be the
best way to go in the long run. We followed Grand
Master DeMaria all over the county when we started
training and the distances were not always short
- Putnam Valley, Croton, Ossining, Tarrytown,
backyards and basements and it went on and on
and it's difficult to hold your group together
along the way and that's understandable but when
you have a nice central location it's good rooting
and good foundation and it becomes a home for
people.
MJ: How did you decide on this particular
place?
SJ: Well I
started this project on this particular location
about a year and a half ago. And interestingly
enough when I used to live in Carmel and worked
in Yonkers I used to drive by here – for
16 years I drove by here and was always curious
about this little building set way back in the
woods and it was tantalizing to me to think about
the possibilities of that and I didn't even know
what it was. One day I drove up the driveway – it
looked like private property– and I saw
this Trollheim place “The Sons of Norway” and
I just left. I always thought about that place – boy
that would be a nice spot. And then a couple
of years ago my daughter came home and she told
me she wanted to go to this “teen outback”.
I had no idea what it was... so I said let me
check it out...and lo and behold it's the same
building! I took one look at the place being
secluded and tucked in the woods and I told my
daughter “no you can't go.” So that
was that. Months went by and...at a local town
meeting this building was being discussed that
it was actually for sale. So I called immediately
and we went into negotiations - and we struggled
with that for another six months and everything
just fell apart – it wasn't going to happen – we
couldn't afford it – the terms weren't
really favorable to us. I just threw my hands
up and we walked away from it. And then
three or four months after that we got a phone
call from the owners asking if we were still
interested and one thing led to the next and
everything kind of worked out. But it's been
a struggle and it's been hard ....we've had great
support...the Carolina school and all the other
schools have offered their support if we needed
it and our own students have been really working
hard on this project. We only took the building
over in late March so we've really cranked bringing
it to how we see it now. So I feel very fulfilled
in that sense.
MJ: What
were some of the challenges that you faced?
SJ: The biggest
challenge overall was of course the finan-cial
aspect. I basic-ally put my whole family and
our life on the line for this - in a financial
way - our house- every-thing we own. I hope to
be able to make it last. I just want to be able
to keep the building alive and meet the expenses
and hopefully we'll be able to earn a living
where we can survive. If I have to work other
jobs I'll do that but hopefully we won't.
MJ: How
is this center different from other martial
arts centers and what is your vision of it
for the future?
SJ: Well I
think first and foremost, our allegiance to our
system and Grand Master DeMaria is very strong.
We've always been trained in good tradition and
good Wu De. So the first thing that comes to
mind is that...we try not to compromise the integrity
of the art. We're very true to the ethics and
the traditions of the arts. We don't want our
schools to be – how should I say it – martial
arts factories. And for me personally I feel
very strongly about that. So I think we're different
in that sense. We're also different, I feel,
in the depth of our lineage – the purity
of our style and our art in that we are so closely
tied to Great Grand Master Chang and Grand Master
DeMaria. So we have a very rich pure system that
few schools can even come close to. Another aspect
that makes us unique is our highly unusual affiliation
with the Shao-lin Temple. It was a very rare
and historical event when our schools were basically
recognized as sister schools of the Shao-lin
Temple in China. Our personal little space here
is different from most schools because when we
planned it out I used the principles of Feng
Shui along with form and function. We sanctified
the place when the Buddhist priests came up from
the Temple of Mercy and performed a special ceremony.
I haven't done much in here without considering
the Feng Shui dynamics of the building and I
also hope to bring back a flavor – a little
piece of the Shao-lin Temple back to Westchester
County. It's ironic but if you look at the photos
of the Shao-lin Temple this building, even before
I touched it has a reminiscence of that – it
has a wood structure and the massive stone foundation
in the front of it and two large windows on the
side of the large main door – which happen
to be round in the temple and they are square
in this building but it conjures the image right
away with the basic form of it. I tried to pick
up some of the design cues from the temple and
they're in here in one form or another. Even
though this is a basic contemporary style in
a sense I tried to stick with the colors that
I saw in China - just tried to capture that flavor
a little bit.
MJ: Do
not other schools consider Feng Shui in their
design?
SJ: No, I think
most people don't consider Feng Shui when they
do things. I don't think martial art schools
pay attention to the broad-ness of the art. I
think most martial art schools are single minded
in that they are self-defense oriented and they
are interested in cranking out a lot of students.
I would like to think that there are a lot of
other schools out there that are interested in
helping people to develop themselves and using
the martial arts as a means for self-cultivation.
MJ: You mentioned the broadness of the
art. Can you talk about some of the programs
you plan here and how they might be different
from other schools?
SJ: Oh absolutely.
You know, the martial arts are such a cultural
event from the Chinese standpoint and even from
other countries in the truest sense – in
Japan and Korea. But because of my constant exposure
to the Chinese community maybe it's been a little
bit easier for me to draw on some of those other
aspects like Chinese language, Chinese cooking
- being in the Chinese restaurant business for
such a long time lends itself to that. That is
probably unique for a martial arts course. So
I hope that we are a little bit well- rounded
culturally so we can draw people of varied interests
not just those who are interested in training
in martial arts but open up the culture to people
in interesting ways and maybe using that as a
kind of a eye opener for them. So if they come
into cooking or if they come to play mahjong
they'll be intrigued by the tai chi or the Shao-lin
and the meditation and their interest will be
piqued and they'll look in those directions too.
THE STUDENT/THE
TEACHER
MJ: How
long have you been involved in the martial
arts?
SJ: Well, we
never really like to talk about time because
it's never long enough. If I have to put a time
on it it's 25 or 26 years not including my meditation
training that started many years before that.
I started kind of late in a sense but Grand Master
said to me,
“Where there is breath there is life.” In
my head I would've liked to have started when
I was a kid. But Kung Fu was not available then
- it was still very tightly held close to the
Chinese community and prior to that it really
wasn't taught to non-Asians. So Grand Master
DeMaria was one of the few early on – you
might call him a pioneer in terms of authentic
Chinese Kung Fu.
MJ: What
prompted you to get into the martial arts?
You said you started with meditation?
SJ: Yeah,
well ...I have a very strong background in science
and physiology and After graduate school I was
called back by Columbia University to take part
in a research study. They were interested in
developing a program of meditation called Clinically
Standardized Meditation or CSM that could be
put into a hospital setting. They recognized
the tremendous benefits of meditation as far
as lowering blood pressure, reducing stress,
creating endorphins and putting people into an
altered state of consciousness. And they under-stood
the benefit of that for both healing and for
pain relief for terminally ill patients. In order
to be involved in this program I needed to be
trained. And in the course of that training I
had some very unusual experiences if you want
to call them that
– out of the ordinary or paranormal or
mystical. And that really was an eye opener for
me and it opened up some windows that I simply
had to jump through (laughs). So I wanted
to pursue that very strongly and I thought how
am I going to continue on this quest? And at
the same time I was very physically active – a
lot of exercise, a lot of running. And one day
I ran into Grand Master DeMaria – who I
didn't know at the time.
MJ: How
did you run into him? Where was that?
SJ: In a pizza
parlor – waiting for a table. (laughter)
And he mentioned that he was going to open up
another martial arts school. I was always interested
in martial arts and I had visited the karate
Dojos and the Aikido places and none of them
felt right to me. But when he mentioned Kung
Fu my eyes lit up because I had been weaned on
those old Kung Fu TV shows - glued to the TV
set every single week. So, when I stopped by
the school the first night I knew that was it – that
was the place I wanted to be and that's how I
connected. It was through realizing that the
true journey in Kung Fu involved meditation,
as well as good physical conditioning, and that
it's a very spiritual quest. And I really
believe that – I think that people who
come for purely self-defense training either
leave or they change. And I think that is pretty
much the way it is. So I came to it kind of through
the back door. I never anticipated teaching.
I just continued to train and train and train.
And then it seemed like almost an accident that
I was teaching.
MJ: And
Grand Master was also teaching meditation?
SJ: Absolutely.
We were fortunate enough to be trained by someone
who really understood the full magnitude of what
the Kung Fu is really about. And probably I never
would have stayed if it hadn't been like that
because that's what I saw missing in many other
places and that's why they never really connected
with me. The body part is always there, it's
the mind and spirit part that's put aside all
too often, but you can't have one without the
other.
MJ: So
how did you slide into teaching?
SJ: Well one
day Grand Master came to me and Master Eric and
said I want to make you Sifus and that's how
it took off from there. It's a natural process.
You're pulled out to lead class here and there
just as we like to do with our students whenever
they have an opportunity to work with a younger
brother or sister. We like to pull you aside
and give you a chance. Probably the best time
to become a student is when you become a teacher.
You realize how much you need to learn and you
have to see it through the eyes of a student.
And also you have to be careful of how you're
teaching and what you do because you want to
give everyone everything the right way...with
no errors ...because they are going to pass this
on. So it's a lot of responsibility. But I like
it. I think it's worth it.
MJ: What
have you learned about yourself in teaching?
SJ: (chuckles)
That I'm pretty goofy. I'm shy. I don't like
to get up in front of people. I really don't
like to talk and then of course I find myself
having to talk. Grand Master would always say “Talk
is cheap” and it is. But you need to get
out a certain amount of information and it's
necessary for people to understand. So I stand
there and talk. And little by little you get
over it. But basically I'm still kind of quiet
and shy. And I learned that I'm a lot more dyslexic
than I thought I was. When I have to move lines
around it's a struggle for me. You know left
and right side it's a struggle (laughs).
MJ: When
did you get to teach on your own? How did that
happen?
SJ: Well the
mechanism is inherent in becoming a Sifu. The
whole idea is to generate that one person who
can go out and continue to spread what we do.
That really is our mission, that is our goal.
Grand Master always preferred that people would
go out on their own and actually start a school.
And that's really hard as I said before. It took
me a couple of years to find a spot that I could
actually go to. In the meantime, I started out
teaching at the college. And then it spread and
people kept asking me would you continue to teach.
So, the students got together and did the leg
work and we found a spot. And that's really how
it happened. It wasn't something that I put my
mind to - it really developed on its own and
took a life of its own.
MJ: Do
you think students have changed since you started?
SJ: Overall
I'd have to say yes. And I don't even know if
that is a fair expression. I only judge it on
the fact that in some ways we've had to adjust
our training to accommodate our society. Certainly
years ago, to tell you the truth, we would have
fallen on the sword for Grand Master. It's a
type of dedication and loyalty that I know is
out there in many students but...when you draw
in from the general population you draw in people
who are not always like-minded. The training
is always available for those students who want
to push the envelope and we know who they are.
It's not that we sacrifice the training - it's
just that that type of training is not for everyone.
And, that is neither good nor bad because one
of the great things that I've always felt is
to try and open up the arts to as many people
as possible because it's such a great vehicle
for self-discovery and self-development, as well
as physical wellness. And that's one of
the things that we reached for many years ago
when we directed our energies towards the American
Center for Chinese Studies, was to try and create
more of a welcoming image for people so they
wouldn't be intimidated by coming to a martial
arts studio. And I feel very strongly about that
- which is one of the reasons I like to keep
the cultural aspect up.
MJ: What causes that lack of dedication
and commitment?
SJ: There are a few things. One is that it's
hard work. People are used to immediate gratification,
the quick reward, and it's not that way. The
truth of the art is that it only gives you back
what you put in. So it's a very honest system
in that way. And so any cheating or any shortcuts
are only shortcuts of the self – you're
really cheating yourself and no one else. I think
one of the other issues is it's facing the self.
Many people don't want to turn their eyes inward.
They're reluctant to get a sense of their true
self. Whatever fears they might have or whatever
self-image they might have - the idea that as
they see themselves may not be the way other
people see them.
MJ: Can
you talk a little bit about what it was like
to train in the old days?
SJ: Well the
first night of class Grand Master practically
knocked me out (laughs). He hit me in the solar
plexus with an elbow while I was standing in
front of a wall.
MJ: You
didn't know it was coming?
SJ: No
MJ: So
that was your introduction?
SJ:Yeah. Today
you might not choose to send that message to
people right away. But I don't want to give the
impression that the arts have gotten softer by
any means, only that there are avenues for people
to train and not have to go through the intensity
that we did years ago - my fists looked like
two bloody pieces of meat, big and swollen up
from training, breaking boards, breaking my knuckles
- but that's still there if people want it. It's
there for the select few who want to pursue it.
MJ: But
along with that intensity was a healing, was
it not, of your back problems?
SJ: Yes. I'd
been practicing for many years and then I had
a car accident. I was stopped at a traffic light
and someone slammed into me like I wasn't even
there. And I had injuries to my vertebrae and
disks and they were pretty severe. My orthopedist
knew I was in martial arts and he told me that
was the end of my martial arts career. Sifu gave
me special meditations to do and I did special
exercises in class. I never stopped training.
I even came to class wired up with tens machines
taped to my back and I just continued on. The
doctors wanted to operate but the options were
33% chance I'd get better, 33% chance there'd
be no change, and 33% chance I'd get worse. So
with odds like that [I thought] I'll wait and
see what happens. So I did – I stuck with
everything that Sifu told me plus acupuncture
and Chinese herbs, tai chi, modified my Shao-lin
training a little bit for awhile, and Western
physical therapy which is always good anyway.
And as time went on the MRIs kept showing that
there were changes in my injury that weren't
supposed to happen. And that's what the doctors
said – we don't know why – you should
be getting worse not better – we can't
understand it. It was a mystery – but nobody
asked, nobody was interested. I started to heal
and nobody wanted to know how. They just passed
it off as a medical anomaly.
MJ: How
have the principles of the martial arts affected
your own personal life and can you give examples?
SJ: Ah well - every day of my life I hope to
be living those principles. The idea that things
are good enough - which I see far too much of.
Everybody seems to think that everything is good
enough. And very often things are not good enough
and people are not willing to go the extra effort
or the extra mile to try to put things right.
Like even for me, in paying attention to detail.
I might have been a little sloppy in detail you
know early on. And of course the Kung Fu trains
you to pay attention to detail. And that was
one thing that overlapped pretty quickly into
my everyday life – everyday chores, everyday
work things, pay attention to detail. Also another
thing is being able to be in the moment. Whatever
happens to be going on at the time - to actually
be able to devote yourself 100% to the task at
hand. It's an-other lost art in many ways for
people. But that comes about through focus and
through understanding the Zen of whatever it
is – whether you're painting a wall or
sweeping the floor or paring an apple - there
is great beauty and great peace even in a task
that you don't like doing if you simply allow
yourself to be in that task 100%. Some of the
other things – [like] patience. Patience
is a great teacher when you realize how you have
to be patient with yourself in training. It’s
not easy to grasp certain things. It's much easier
to become patient with other people when you
try to realize what it is that they are going
through. I think I'm a pretty patient person.
I try to understand things from another person's
point of view or from where they're standing.
And Tao - the duality of existence - stares me
in the face every single day. I can't not think
about Tao, everything in terms of Tao. I look
at the newspaper, I watch the news, I see Tao.
I see yin and yang, peace and war.
MJ: Can
you review the four principles that you talk
about in class?
SJ: Yes. I
like to talk about them as the four guidelines
that are easy to grasp and I try to bring them
to our students early on right there for everyday
life, including my own. Very simply: 1. The “watercourse
way” – the idea is to try to be fluid.
Understanding that you don't have to meet everything
head on, that there are other ways to accomplish
things – to be flexible, changeable – the
inherent strength in the softness of water. I
could go on for 45 minutes about that. 2. The
concept of “isness” – that's
another big one. Everyday of my life too I think
about that. Things simply are what they are.
My current situation isn't easy – the one
I've just been through but it is what it is and
we need to just accept it for what it is and
move on. So often students come to me and they
have issues, problems in their life that aren't
going to be changed -things simply are what they
are. So you have to accept that and when you
accept it you're free from the burden of carrying
that around or thinking “oh if it can only
be like this or if it can only be like that or
if I can only change it”
well you can't change everything and things are
what they are. So it's the concept of “isness.” 3.
The concept of “seizing the moment” -
being in the here and now is so important not
just for tasks. How many times have you gone
to the store or anywhere and all you want is
for someone to actually listen to what you're
saying to actually understand what it is to take
a moment to listen to what it is you have to
say. Maybe then you can get something accomplished
you know you can actually communicate an idea
to somebody. But being in the here and now for
people is very hard. So take a step back and
just focus 100% on the moment. Martial
arts is certainly good training for that. It
makes you focus on yourself, focus on the moment.
And seizing the moment is important. 4.
“Letting go” – just able to
let things go. When you come to class you learn
to let go - just kind of put all those things
in the outside world behind you, forget about
it, just let it go. The bigger issues that I
see every day – you turn on the news, you
pick up the paper, people fighting over property
and land and lives being lost over something
that they simply can't let go. The borders are
imaginary lines in the ground no one even owns
the earth to begin with and yet we carry on -
they adhere to the property they adhere to hate
for generations and rather than simply let go.
People have trouble letting go of wealth. The
concept of letting go.
THE PHILOSOPHY
MJ: Can
you explain, from your own view, the difference
between the Eastern philosophy out of which
the martial arts arise and our western tradition,
for instance, in the view of and approach to
life?
SJ: Hum – wow
that's a big question. Well, the first thing
that comes to mind is that western ideology is
really a linear kind of thinking. We tend to
view the world in terms of black and white. It
goes way back to when man first began to realize
himself and think about his own existence. In
the west we began to think about the “I” as
being separate from all things - different from
all that existed because we could think. “I
think, therefore I am” – that was
the premise. So that set up a paradigm where
he saw himself as “I” vs. everything
else. And so from that point on rather than seeing
himself as part of a whole he always began to
see himself and the rest of creation – animals,
solid objects, and so forth –
as separate. And that carried through philosophy,
Western philosophy, Aristotelian thought, and
it just permeated our culture and it permeated
the way we began to see things in the world – as
the “I” being separate from all things,
since the “I” was a sentient being.
Whereas, the Eastern philosophy never started
out that way. It started out right from the beginning
that man recognized himself to be part of all
things. And so immediately they set off in the
direction of wholeness - all things are integrated – all
things are part of a whole – all things
affect each other. Man and the environment are
inseparable – which is Tao
– the single energy source working in many
different ways but always working together. And
interestingly enough science has recently discovered
that Asian people actually, ocularly, see the
world differently. And I've always found that
interesting because anyone who spends any time
dealing with the Asian community it's kind of
frustrating and kind of funny at the same time.
We're very logical in the way we think – you
know 1+1=2, A+B then C. But you get this feeling
of total confusion all the time in the Asian
community because it's largely that they actually
see the world differently. If they look at a
picture, for example, as westerners we'll look
at a picture and we'll focus on a single object.
When we look at a picture of a tiger in the woods,
westerners will immediately focus on the tiger.
Asians, if they look at that same picture, the
tiger will probably not jump out to them immediately.
They'll see a jungle – they'll see all
of the greenery – their tendency will not
be to focus on a single object. What we've found
in science is that it is unique about how people
really see the world. So it's not only philosophically
how we see the world but we tend to visually
see the world differently. It has so permeated – this “allness” thinking
in the culture that the nervous system responds
in that way too. And so that's a big difference
in the way we relate and communicate with each
other. And that is probably why there are problems
communicating cross culturally across the international
community. If all cultures see the world differently
then until we can come upon a single – sort
of communal - way of seeing we're always going
to have obstacles and divisions in the way we
think. I tend to think that trying to see the
world holistically is the better way to go for
everyone.
MJ: How
is Eastern philosophy incorporated into the
martial arts?
SJ: Well, the
true essence of our art has always been about
self-cultivation and enlightenment and trying
to move to a higher place of awareness. If you
go back to the roots of the Shao-lin Temple you
understand that the monks there did not start
out as martial artists –
they started out as spiritual men in the quest
for enlightenment. And so, our actual roots were
born out of that. If you follow the true way
of the art – which we have been lucky enough
to be introduced to and trained in
– you realize that you are just “visiting” this
earthly realm for a short period of time and
that we will continue on as an energy source
and as an energy system in many ways shapes and
forms. And, if you follow the way (Tao) you realize
that more and more. Like we spoke earlier, people
who come to the martial arts just for fighting
...I feel that if they go to a school that holds
true to the traditional values they either change
or they leave. And you soon realize that the
fighting aspects of the art, as Grand Master
DeMaria always said, it's a gift
– it's a gift of the art.
MJ: How
do you incorporate the Eastern philosophy in
your teaching – with Qigong, diet, nutrition,
body/mind connection, meditation, etc?
SJ: Well, I
like to think I'm living that philosophy. I try
really hard every day I look at the world with
a Taoist philosophy. Even my own approach to
who I am and hope to be is really very much in
line with Tao. I like to think at least I strive
for it. And so hopefully everything we do in
class follows through with that. I've always
wanted to make our learning an everyday experience
for people and I try to pull every day life situations
into our classes and [explain] how we can see
those as being part of Tao. Looking at it from
an Asian, Taoist, Buddhist point of view, I tailor
our exercises accordingly - our Qigong training,
our diet and our food – we try to focus
on different types of eating for the seasons
as they change, through the five element theory.
And hopefully we'll see changes in our own life
that we can attribute to what we do in the school.
And when that happens people are more willing
to continue when they see some real benefit from
it. I've seen many people change many things
about their life through the martial arts training
over the years – whether it's a particular
habit or life style change - and it just seems
to happen automatically just from coming to class.
They're not always conscious decisions but it
just works into your life.
MJ: Can
you go into a little more depth about how the
study of the martial arts can help people with
the rigors of daily modern life – I'm
looking more for the actual physiology of when
and how a change takes place – such as
rewiring the pathways?
SJ: I guess
there's a few things at work on a few different
levels. One of course is conscious –making
a conscious decision to do something. Maybe because
you came to class and it made you feel better
and you realized you know I want to do something
about my health, I want to do something about
my weight, I want to do something about my stress,
my high blood pressure, my smoking, my anger,
whatever it might be. So you can come from a
conscious point of view and you can really want
to make that change. It's harder to make things
happen if you don't really don't want the change
- if you really don't believe that you can do
it and accept that change. First you have to
be aware that you want to change and then of
course you have to apply it. But on the other
hand, I know and I've seen, through the arts
there's a spiritual connection that happens through
what I like to call the universal intelligence.
I do believe that in the Tao and in the dynamics
of the energy, the nature that's out there, the
information is out there – it's like Mulder
from the x-files,
“the truth is out there”. - (laughs)
It really is! The more you move to a spiritual
place the more this universal intelligence starts
to come to you. Then those changes maybe are
not conscious changes that you decide to make.
There's something that happens inside you and
you start to move in a different direction and
you start to behave differently. Maybe it's that
you begin to lose your taste for cigarettes,
or you go out to dinner and all of a sudden you
decide not to have a piece of steak and the next
thing you know it's happening more and more but
you're not making a conscious decision. This
intelligence has somehow found its way into your
psyche little by little and the next thing you
know three or four months have passed and you
really haven't had a piece of steak. And now
you begin to actually lose a taste for it. Not
that eating meat is a bad thing, but for some
people you might choose not to. So, I've seen,
there's sort of an unconscious consciousness
that comes to work. And I think it's because
you open yourself more and more to what I believe
is a universal intelligence. I think non-violence
is a universal intelligence. However, until the
world community is able to raise itself to a
level of consciousness where they can tap into
that level of awareness it's futile. There's
always going to be angst and there's always going
to be violence and so forth and so on.
MJ: Actually
you just touched on the next question – how
would the martial arts and any of these practices
help evolve the planet? And do you actually
see that happening?
SJ: Well,
on the one hand there's yin and yang. And I guess
there will always be the good and the bad the
right and the wrong. That's the duality of existence.
But that doesn't mean it has to be constant.
Maybe for the next millennium we can live in
total peace and harmony and in the millennium
following that things might be a little more
tumultuous. Or maybe there won't be a millennium
following that. So, I don't think it's futile
to hope and think in that direction. I've always
said that if everyone studied martial arts there
would be very few problems in the world. So I
believe, yes, one of the ways to stop the craziness
in the world and make the world community a better
place to live is to continue to spread this training.
MJ: Can
you elaborate more on the Tao philosophy of
oneness and the fact that there really isn't
duality or if there is that it's really part
of the whole?
SJ: You know I like to look at things from both
sides – the Eastern view and the Western
view. When we tried to under-stand the beginning
of all things from Western science eventually
at some point in time all the great physicists – Sagan,
Einstein, Asimov, Capra, Hawking, and so forth
and so on
– came to the conclusion through their
super-colliders that there were four energy dynamics
at work. One was what they simply labeled to
be a strong force, they simply labeled another
one a weak force. They said there was gravity
and electromagnetism. So they said there were
these four forces at work in the dynamics of
the universe. And through more and more study
and investigation and banging around and smashing
atoms in the desert out there somewhere in Arizona
with these super-colliders they studied more
and more and they said well, you know what, now
that we considered this we must recognize that
there really are not four forces but there's
two. So they said the weak force and the electro-magnetic
force are really working as the same thing and
the strong force and the gravity are working
as the same thing. So they said so really at
work in the universe are two forces – a
strong force and a weak force. And then they
studied a little bit more and sometime in the
late '80s they said that while there were two
forces at work in the universe – the strong
and the weak force – through watching the
beginning of galaxies and so forth we were able
with the help of the Hubbell telescope to see
stars imploding and exploding
– they said these forces are inseparable.
There's a strong force and a weak force and they
function as one. And so they came up with what
they called the Theory of One. And that's been
the operating premise so far. And it doesn't
take a great leap of discovery to realize that
the theory of one is Tao. It's always been Tao.
It's the yin and the yang – the strong
and the weak – two inseparable forces functioning
as one. As we would sometimes say, complimentary
opposites.
MJ: But
this has not become part of the main-stream
in Western thought has it?
SJ: I don't
know if I can answer that. Because so much that
is part of the main-stream is part of the undercurrent
and it's not what people will talk about. So
I don't know. You see more and more about it.
You go to the bookstore and you see the Asian
philosophy section which used to be mixed up
with occult section and the mystical section
you're beginning to see those sections are growing
rapidly – they're expanding. And so what
that tells you is that more and more people are
looking in this direction. More and more people
are saying to themselves that this seems to make
a lot more sense – in my everyday life
and as a world view. As the world changes we
can't get away from the fact
– we've come to understand that our environment
we must treat our environ-met as a living organism
and that every-thing that we do effects it and
what hap-pens to it effects us. As we pollute
the rivers and the rain and so forth and so on – we've
been forced into this direction trying to understand
that we're all part of a whole. We've been saying
that in Taoist philosophy for 5000 years.
MJ: What
one thought would you like to leave the readers
with?
SJ: Well, one
of the things that I think about almost every
day is the shortness of life how little time
we really do have here and that it's such a shame
about man's inhumanity to man on a daily basis.
We have such little time. There are such few
people on this planet that will ever reach their
true objective which is the betterment of themself –
hopefully. [So] whenever someone does something
for you – and I've said this in class many
times – you should never take it for granted.
Always understand that whether they take a moment
to say good morning or to make you a cup of coffee
in the coffee shop or they run a little errand
for you – no matter how big or small the
effort it's a piece of someone's life – whenever
someone spends some time with you or for you
they're taking a piece of their own life which
is preciously short and small and they're really
handing it over to you – and that time
can never be taken back – it's a gift of
eternity. And I think if you hold that thought
it makes you a lot more grateful in your daily
interactions with people. And like with my students,
I take it to heart whenever they do something – even
coming to class – it's taking time out
of their life that they can really never have
back and it puts on a whole new importance to
it I think for me.
MJ: Going
along with the concept that less is more – can
you give us one word to describe:
MJ: Eastern
philosophy
SJ: One (laughs)
MJ: Martial
arts
SJ: [the]
Way
MJ: How
this practice makes you feel
SJ: Hopeful
MJ: How
the practice has changed you
SJ: Better
MJ: What
you hope to accomplish with the school
SJ: Continuation
MJ: Thank
you Sifu.
SJ: Thank
you.
Post Script: It was a privilege
to be invited to have this discussion with
Sifu. I am honored and most grateful. MJ |
